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Don Pedro BD5-11
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Arno
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very funny reviews!

About cave C of BD5: indeed not so creative, but I remember when I played this cave for the first time I recognized cave C with walls replaced by boulders. I found it quite funny at that time. Perhaps this is the first "remix cave" ever? Wink

I'm very curious to read more reviews! Very Happy
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LogicDeLuxe
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
Perhaps this is the first "remix cave" ever? Wink
Probably not, since Masters Boulder Dash is supposedly his first game, which seems to be the only one based on BD3, Caves C, E and F there are also very similar to the original BD3.

On the early BD1 engine games, quite a few didn't even bother changing the random seeds. Not only on C, but also for the other caves with random elements, you can frequently recognize the placements from the BD1 Caves.

Take a look at Don Pedro's Caves A alone:
BD5: It's right there. Diamonds replaced with Boulders, and Space replaced with Dirt.
BD6: He changed the quantities, but the pattern is right there.
BD7: Same difference.
BD8: Random is unaltered BD1!
BD9: And again unaltered random from BD1!
BD11: Same seed. Subtil, but it's there. Every Boulder had either a Boulder or a Diamond in its place on BD1.

I also reused the BD1 Cave A random elements in Creazy Dream 10, which is intentional and meant as a homage to BD1.
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Arno
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
BD8: Random is unaltered BD1!

Yes, when I first played that cave I recognized the bottom-left corner from BD1 cave A (probably because you approach it from above, just like in BD1).

For the other caves A in your list I realized later that the random seed is the same. Smile
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Dustin
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finishing the BD6 review.

M - First cave with all three "diamond-creating entities" in it - butterflies, amoeba and magic wall! But unfortunately, they're just "placed somewhere" without any clear idea behind it, So only 2/5.

N - Another uninspiring cave. Some fireflies, some butterflies, some boulders, some diamonds - but no idea at all... just 1/5.

O - That's a funny new idea for that time, a firefly in such a narrow tunnel that you can't get past it! So Rockford must move back and forth to avoid it. Though the layout is still clearly upgradeable, I'd rate this one above average, 3/5.

P - Uninspiring again. Some explosions and then you collect the diamonds, create some bonus diamonds if you wish, and that's it. 2/5.

Int4 - Hidden exit, but without a shade of a hint where it might be - unfair. 1/5.
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Arno
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx for finishing this review! Nice! Smile

Dustin wrote:
Int4 - Hidden exit, but without a shade of a hint where it might be - unfair. 1/5.

Actually I found this intermission quite funny. When playing this on C64 the 4 dirt-paths go outside the visible area since the scrolling is disabled for intermissions. Even Rockford becomes invisible when entering any of these mysterious paths. Perhaps this is the first intermission exploiting this effect? Wink
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, Logic DeLuxe! PPerhaps I should also leave the seeds unchanged in cave A of my upcoming Don Pedro remix game - let's see... ;D

BTW, is there a definite reason why the Crazy Dream cave maps aren't on this page?

Arno - well yes, maybe I underestimated the fact that this int is the first hidden exit cave and therefore has a surprising effect to a player who hasn't seen this before! I raise the value of this int to 3/5! ;D So DP6 gets all in all 45.5% from me. This fits into my subjective feeling that it is worse than DP5. From a purely gameplay-based point of view, I think it's even clearly worse, but there were some points for instructive new ideas, e.g. caves B, J, and int4.
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
I'm very curious to read more reviews!

So here we go Very Happy

Don Pedro 7

BTW I'm ignoring the fact that the fireflies were ghosts, which I don't find too instructive, but that's of course a matter of taste - just as all this stuff ;D
Also, all reviews are based on level 1 solely, as there aren't any proper higher levels anyway. Here, Dr. Watson and Don Pedro continued the unfavourable tendency that started in BD3 - higher levels are an unplesant additional work for the creators and not worth bothering too much about. In my opinion, this is a pity because the 5-level idea has a lot of potential, which the Dustin's BD series constantly tries to prove ;D

A - as already mentioned, there's not too much creative staff you can construct with only two objects available, and - well, it isn't too creative either. 2/5.

B - this has a really beautiful-looking cave map! Speaking of gameplay, it can be quite frustrating to search for the exit while fireflies are potentially at every corner - at least if one plays this "the classical way" with only 1/4 of the cave visible. Hard for me to decide between 2 and 3 points, but "in dubio pro reo" Very Happy 3/5.

C - that's a cool idea! DP has made the best out of the fact that he couldn't place any regular objects in C-caves and had the funny idea to randomize an amoeba! A clear plus in terms of creativity! I'm not entirely sure how to interprete the "Amoeba Time 0" o the cave map - does the amoeba start to grow fast from the beginning or does it never grow fast? On my favourite clone GDash, the second is the case, which makes the waiting time even more boring than usual in trap-the-amoeba caves. On the other hand, in the first case I'm not sure whether it is even possible to trap the amoeba?! Who knows more here? In any case, 4/5 for the innovative C-cave!

D - another innovative idea. If you aren't careful, thediamondswillimmediatelyfalldownthroughtheMagic Walls. Well, most of them will fall through exactly 2 MWs, so it doesn't matter, but the fact that the Wall runs for only 20s demands some quickness.I'm not entirely sure whether it was intended by DP that one can "cheat" because the dirt area is just big enough to smash butterflies without the diamonds falling down at all. This looks pretty obvious for me today, but I also remember I wasn't aware of this when I first played this cave! I could imagine that DP overlooked this, too, because otherwise he might have required far more than 20 diamonds. In any case, I give 4/5 for a very innovative idea!

Int1 - not creative, but playable. 2/5.

E - not clear to me what this cave is all about. The beginning kind of copied from BD1-int2, and the rest of the cave has no clear theme at all, beside boringness while collecting the diamonds and then go all the way back to the exit without anything happening... 2/5 with a lot of good will.

F - that's a nice construction! A thoughtful design which demands a bit of strategy concerning the order in which the four parts can be played. Freeing the exit is also quite tricky, and here DP explored a new principle - explosions can also have a downside when they blast away the wrong items - in this case the "item" is Rockford himself! Very Happy We'll see more of this two caves later. On the downside of this cave is again the fact that the fireflies must be released by snapping, which is too often the case in DP's games for my taste. Still, this nice construction deserves 3/5 IMO.

G - this is DP's first cave which explicitely uses the good old BD1-MW-amoeba-behaviour. The idea is a clear improvement of BD3-O, but unfortunately the cave is quite unfair, at least with the original BD1 engine. As soon as the amoeba grows too high, the Magic Wall cannot stop it anymore... but on the other hand, you have to wait long enough to get 50 diamonds. This results in extreme luck-dependance, and what makes matters worse, there's also no clearly visible reason why the amoeba sometimes converts and sometimes doesn't, which raises the frustration factor drastically. I'm pretty sure that DP didn't know about the exact rules himself, but then he could simply have lowered the diamond requirement and everything would have been fine. As it is, more than 2/5 is absolutely not possible despite the innovative basic idea.

H - looks unimpressive to me at first sight, but this cave explores some unusual explosion effects. What happens in the box in the middle is quite clear - one of the walls must be blasted away so you don't get stuck in the box. The "pillar" to the right again shows downsides of explosions - the diamonds are in danger to get crushed if you make the explosion too early. However, I have two improvement suggestions with the design - first, the pillar is so high that the explosion in the pillar requires pushing luck, which I think is quite unnecessary, and second, the diamonds have to be collected anyway to see the exit and realize that the explosion in the pillar is necessary at all. But then the diamonds are out of danger and safely in Rockford's pocket anyway. I would have replaced the exit by another diamond and put the real exit somewhere else. Still, the innovative ideas make me rate this above average - 3/5!

Int2 - looks far more interesting than most of his ints. And finally, the fireflies have space to move! I think it would have been nicer to seperate the two fireflies, but still 3/5 for the strategy that is needed to get a boulder to the left wall.

- t.b.c. -
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