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Boulder Dash VII. G1. Impossible Level?

 
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ZX Games
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:14 am    Post subject: Boulder Dash VII. G1. Impossible Level? Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

Here is the map of level G1 from Boulder Dash VII game:



The player is required to collect 50 (fifty) diamonds.

How is that possible? Has anyone completed this level? Any experience to share?

Cheers.
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Mikhail Zhilkin
ZX Games


Last edited by ZX Games on Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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RTADash
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Joined: 26 May 2007
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Location: USA (in Ohio)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure that you have to have a firefly hit the amoeba right next to the magic wall (to destroy part of it), and then drop a boulder into that wall to convert the amoeba to diamonds (employing the cave-scan restart bug). Unfortunately, the cave is very luck-reliant. Sad
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ZX Games
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply.

Do you mean that there is no way to accomplish the level unless there is a bug?

We are now working on the third episode of our Boulder Dash remake, so there is no bug to employ. Sounds like we will have to re-design the level, huh?
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Mikhail Zhilkin
ZX Games
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZX Games wrote:

Do you mean that there is no way to accomplish the level unless there is a bug?

Yep, that level takes advantage of the bug where a boulder falling into a magic wall restarts the cavescan and causes all amoebas present to not recognize any possibility of growing. Wink (I'm sure LogicDeluxe will remind us of the amoeba-placement requirements for this to occur - I forgot them).
ZX Games wrote:

Sounds like we will have to re-design the level, huh?

Most likely. Smile
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly you seem to have already a game featuring Boulder Dash III caves. How did you solve this problem in Intermission 1 and Cave O then?

There is a discussion about exactly this bug exploit here: http://www.boulder-dash.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88
RTADash wrote:
ZX Games wrote:

Sounds like we will have to re-design the level, huh?

Most likely. Smile
Entending the engine would be the preferable option.
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ZX Games
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
Interestingly you seem to have already a game featuring Boulder Dash III caves. How did you solve this problem in Intermission 1 and Cave O then?


As you could see at http://www.zxgames.com/en/boulderdash.shtml each episode of Boulder Dash remake by ZX Games features levels from two original games. Therefore we have already covered original Boulder Dash I, III, IV and V (we skipped II, as it would introduce new game objects).

I am not sure what problem you are talking about. Can't really remember any I would encounter when testing our game. Could you please provide the level map, so that I can easily find it and check?

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
There is a discussion about exactly this bug exploit here: http://www.boulder-dash.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88


Will take a look. Thank you.

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
RTADash wrote:
ZX Games wrote:
Sounds like we will have to re-design the level, huh?

Most likely. :)
Entending the engine would be the preferable option.


Do you mean that we should re-implement the original bug in our engine? I am not sure that would be a good idea. On the one hand, it would make our remake closer to the original game, and Boulder Dash fans might enjoy it. On the other hand, it would be quite confusing for those users who are not that familiar with the game.

After all, we in ZX Games reincarnate classic games, but not bugs introduced in them. And what is more, we even get rid of lives, timers and such to make our games more enjoyable.
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Mikhail Zhilkin
ZX Games
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZX Games wrote:
I am not sure what problem you are talking about. Can't really remember any I would encounter when testing our game. Could you please provide the level map, so that I can easily find it and check?
Boulder Dash III Intermission 1:

Boulder Dash III Cave O:

In those, the amoeba is supposed to convert to diamonds as soon as you drop a boulder into the magic wall. This is also the case in the particular cave you asked above. Other Don Pedro caves having this is BD6 Cave M (this one doesn't look like having this in mind, though), BD7 Intermission 4, BD8 Cave E (not important in the absence of timers, though), BD8 Cave H (another one relying on this exploit), BD8 Intermission 2 (not important in the absence of timers), BD9 Cave I (plays completely different with that timing behavior bug), BD9 Intermission 3 (not important in the absence of timers), BD11 Cave A (another one relying on this exploit) and BD11 Cave G (another one relying on this exploit). You see, there are quite some.
ZX Games wrote:
Do you mean that we should re-implement the original bug in our engine?
Not necessarily the bug. You might implement an option for converting amoebas on magic wall usage. Much like that option I have in CLCK.

And eventhough, it is possible to exploit the timing behavior as well, none of Don Pedro's games do this. I did one cave (Deluxe Caves 2 Cave A) where it is required, but I'm not aware of any other cave.
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ZX Games
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
ZX Games wrote:
I am not sure what problem you are talking about. Can't really remember any I would encounter when testing our game. Could you please provide the level map, so that I can easily find it and check?
Boulder Dash III Intermission 1:

I am afraid we have not got this level in our remake.

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
Boulder Dash III Cave O:

This is Cave #31 (Squeeze Every Diamond) of Boulder Dash. Episode I: Dig The Past. As one can understand it from the cave name, we did manage to complete the level by surrounding the amoeba (yet letting it grow as large as possible) and turning all the boulders into diamonds by means of the magic wall, whenever we had a chance. That is, it is possible to complete the level without employing the bug in question.

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
In those, the amoeba is supposed to convert to diamonds as soon as you drop a boulder into the magic wall. This is also the case in the particular cave you asked above. Other Don Pedro caves having this is BD6 Cave M (this one doesn't look like having this in mind, though), BD7 Intermission 4, BD8 Cave E (not important in the absence of timers, though), BD8 Cave H (another one relying on this exploit), BD8 Intermission 2 (not important in the absence of timers), BD9 Cave I (plays completely different with that timing behavior bug), BD9 Intermission 3 (not important in the absence of timers), BD11 Cave A (another one relying on this exploit) and BD11 Cave G (another one relying on this exploit). You see, there are quite some.
ZX Games wrote:
Do you mean that we should re-implement the original bug in our engine?
Not necessarily the bug. You might implement an option for converting amoebas on magic wall usage. Much like that option I have in CLCK.

We decided to simply adjust the diamond assignment for this cave, so that it is possible to complete it without introducing whether a bug or an additional option to the game engine. This solution is certainly the simplest and, in my opinion, the least confusing.

Anyway, thank you for the tip. Whether we have this bug in our remake or not, it is good to be aware of it.

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
And eventhough, it is possible to exploit the timing behavior as well, none of Don Pedro's games do this. I did one cave (Deluxe Caves 2 Cave A) where it is required, but I'm not aware of any other cave.

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Best regards,
Mikhail Zhilkin
ZX Games
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