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BD III Bug Fix
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Dustin
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Erlangen, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: BD III Bug Fix Reply with quote

Hi Logic,
there are still some BD III caves I think could be fixed as well in your Bug Fix (we've already discussed these in other topics here):
K/4 another seed without that idiotic firefly inside the wall
P/3 another seed without these boulders blocking the exit (it is theoretically possible, of course, but I cannot imagine that American Action wanted this level so hard, or they would have put it into level 5...). (I would leave P/5 as it is; there's only one boulder here and a good last obstacle.)
N/2 another seed without the boulder blocking the butterflies off. Again it is solvable, of course, but very hard since you have to release the fireflies, unlike in the other levels.
I would exchange K/1 and K/2. K/2 is much easier than the other levels, because the amoeba is freed without your help; you can just concentrate on trapping it.
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be easy enough, I think.
Exchanging K/1 and K/2 certainly would change the game beyond bug fix, though. I'd rather don't want to touch level 1 at all. Any other opinions on this?
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, ok that's probably best, nit ti change level 1 at all-
Generally I'm under the improession that they did not test the higher levels from cave I on. Cave H must have been tested, otherwise they would not have changed the impossible random seed of H/4. But none of the caves I-P make the impression of being tested on higher levels at all. Cave L, above all L/2, is, to my mind, also very marginal. It's quite not unlikely to get stuck by amoeba and the many boulders falling down there after the explosion...
But this is a marginal case. What I think really needs an update are levels K/4, N/2 and P/3. I think you would oblige every BD3 player by kicking them off.
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustin wrote:
I'm under the improession that they did not test the higher levels from cave I on.

What about level 5, though, cave A/5 is unsolvable in the original. Wink
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's right, of course. We've discussed this a bit in the "BD3 strategies" topic. Logic gave a quite convincing and logical explanatation (according to me). Probably they have set the wall surrounding the inbox in cave A later, and didn't test it again. Without this wall, A/5 would be solvable.
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About K, we have 4 spare bytes left before the next cave.
Thus, we have several ways to do a simple fix:
- fill the box completely with dirt except for the amoeba.
- just replace the firefly in K/4, in which case, there still will be that firefly in K/2.
- just change the seed in K/4.
Which way would you prefer in an updated bugfix?
Any suggestions about alternate seeds on N/2, P/3, and K/4 (if that's the preferred way to fix it)?
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:

Any suggestions about alternate seeds on N/2, P/3, and K/4 (if that's the preferred way to fix it)?

I personally haven't had time to look into this but, on N/2, couldn't you just place a point of dirt where that boulder is, or is changing the randseed easier?
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johnomg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
Which way would you prefer in an updated bugfix?
Any suggestions about alternate seeds on N/2, P/3, and K/4 (if that's the preferred way to fix it)?


Obviously I'm not into the intricacies of how Engines and all that work .... so for what it's worth (probably not much):

- N/2: I found difficult but not unsolvable, so have no suggestion

- P/3: Replace the 4 Boulders with Dirt or Diamonds

- K/4: Fill with Dirt or replace the Firefly with a Boulder. Releasing and enclosing the Ameoba will be difficult enough anyway

Also, a BIG Thank You to LogicDeLuxe for looking at an Updated BugFix.

Regards
John Very Happy
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnomg wrote:
- P/3: Replace the 4 Boulders with Dirt or Diamonds
This is not possible without altering the other levels with it. Thus changing the seed really is the way to go here.
Quote:
- K/4: Fill with Dirt or replace the Firefly with a Boulder.
Which one?
- Replacing the center firefly with dirt won't touch the other levels, since they have dirt in this spot already, but the firefly in K/2 will be still there, which is a playable cave as it is, so there's nothing wrong with it.
- Filling the box with dirt will also solve the problem, but will alter all levels slightly.
- Another random seed on K/4 (and K/2, if you'd like) will not touch the other levels.
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johnomg
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G'day LogicDeLuxe Very Happy

As I said before I'm not into how it all works so expected my suggestions might not be possible. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate that.

Because I'm still learning, terms such as "changing the seed" and "another random seed" don't mean much to me sorry Sad

For what it's worth....
P/3:
Not changing the other caves would be the way to go and if you say that can only be achieved by changing the seed, then so be it.

K/4:
I would go with "replacing the centre firefly with dirt" if it doesn't change the other levels. K/2 is difficult but playable as you said.

I wouldn't fill the box with dirt if it changes all the other levels slightly.

I can't comment on the "random seed" idea because as I said earlier I'm not sure what that means or what the result would be.

I'm happy to go with a more experienced person's opinion on the best way to make K/4 (or P/3) solvable.

Regards
John Very Happy
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnomg wrote:
Because I'm still learning, terms such as "changing the seed" and "another random seed" don't mean much to me sorry Sad
Take a look at GDash. In the cave editor, select a cave, and in the "edit" menu, select "Setup cave random fill". That's exactly the way the BD1 engine works, except that you can not change the "initial fill" or "initial border" settings.
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dd22qq
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if it's an appropriate question to be asking but is there considered to be a 'reputable' source for acquiring BD3? Having recently completed BD1 & BD2, I downloaded BD3 from Zophar's Domain. However, it isn't space-themed...




...and the file isn't named with any special character extensions to indicate that it might be anything other than an original, untouched version. And while I'm quite sure we had BD3 on our C-64 as kids here in Australia (I particularly remember the 'No Copyrights' title screen) I don't ever recall a space-themed BD game or either of the title screens shown at Lemon (albeit we did have a naughty less-than-legally obtained copy).

Could it be that different versions may have been released in different parts of the world?

And is the bug that makes A/5 unsolvable simply that Rockford is locked in from the very start, as seen in the above screenshot? It seems about as glaringly obvious as any mistake could be. How could it ever have been missed?
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sijben Soft version is indeed a bootleg and it is missing the space theme. The engine and caves are completely identical to the official version, including the bugs. Only the colors, graphics and the title screen is different.
For different versions around the world, they most likely only differ in the medium used and the loaders, and maybe copy protection.

And yes, those boulders in the screenshot are the most blatant obvious bug.
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johnomg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
Take a look at GDash. In the cave editor, select a cave, and in the "edit" menu, select "Setup cave random fill". That's exactly the way the BD1 engine works, except that you can not change the "initial fill" or "initial border" settings.

Thanks for that Logic Very Happy

dd22qq wrote:
And while I'm quite sure we had BD3 on our C-64 as kids here in Australia (I particularly remember the 'No Copyrights' title screen) I don't ever recall a space-themed BD game or either of the title screens shown at Lemon...

We did have the Original BD3 in Australia, I remember the Space Theme distinctly because it was so different to BD1 & 2.

Whoops, I posted a link to the Site I rediscovered Boulder Dash on and then remembered that the Forum Guidelines said to "do so at your own risk", so I removed it....Sorry about that Arno Embarassed

I assume it's ok to send dd22qq a link in PM so will do that instead Very Happy
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dd22qq
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ok, well obviously the version we had way back then in the 80's must have been bootlegged also (interestingly, while the official release date for the game was 1986, the Sijben Soft version is dated 1985). It seems some people may have had issues with the radically redesigned graphics right from the start (which, having now seen them courtesy of links provided by johnomg, I have to admit to being rather terrible).

It has never been simply the style of gameplay that made BD so appealing to me. It was as much to do with the design elements and nuances, graphics and sound-wise. I shall therefore be playing the bootlegged version, if you don't mind.

Anyhow, apologies for the thread hijacking/off-topic banter and thanks for all the help.
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