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Don Pedro BD5-11
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Don Pedro BD5-11 Reply with quote

Let's take a look at some of Don Pedro's Games, namely BD5-11
(Man, I sound so professional now...)

Here's my overall opinion:
First of all, I think they're way too difficult, even on level 1!
Second, many caves seem to lack interest. Here's how I envision Don Pedro's thinking process: "Ok lets place a rectangle of butterflies here, and over there will be a line of boulders. Allright, one cave down, 19 to go!" Rolling Eyes
The last thing I have to mention before we delve into specifics is that BD5 is the point where I switch from playing the original editions to playing the No One Inc. vesions.

BTW, some of Pedro's higher levels are simply unsolvable due to a lack of adequate random seed testing. Frusty
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Arno
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's first put some links of the maps here, making it easier to remember the games:

BD5 BD6 BD7 BD8 BD9 BD10 BD11.

I also prefer the NoOne versions,

BD5 BD6 BD7 BD8 BD10 BD11,

but that may be just because I played these long before I got the original games.

My favorite caves from the series are:
5D, 5P, 6int2, 6J (tricky!), 6int3 ( Wink ), 7F, 8J, 8O (No One's version), 9L, 9N, 10F, 11P.

Some interesting details (also about coloring, again....):
- BD5 cave C is just BD1 cave C with walls replaced by boulders. (I guess Don Pedro re-used the BD1 engine and modified the original caves...)
- The colour scheme of BD5 & 6 is exactly BD1, except BD5 cave I... Confused
- The colour scheme of BD7 is exactly BD3, except cave G, M and the intermissions are colored like BD1...
- BD5 int4 could be easiest thinkable cave, if the time was set to 255 instead of 1 second! Or is there another way to make it easier?
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
- BD5 int4 could be easiest thinkable cave, if the time was set to 255 instead of 1 second! Or is there another way to make it easier?

I'd like to try this int, but I'm haveing a problem with cave P. Even though I drop the boulders into the magic wall left to right (so none hit the firefly), I still come out 8 diamonds short. I suspect that it's because of the bug where the cavescan restarts when a boulder hits the M-wall and some boulders are lost in translation.

Also, just curious, is BD10 cave E possible? You don't have to send a video, I'm sure there's some clever way to do it.

[EDIT]
Nvm on cave P, I just figured it out. You have to drop the boulders through the wall sloooooowwwwly and graaaaduuuuaally. As for the int4, it is still the easiest screen ever - just hold down right from the start.
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Arno
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTADash wrote:
Nvm on cave P, I just figured it out. You have to drop the boulders through the wall sloooooowwwwly and graaaaduuuuaally.


This is indeed because of that "bug" (the PLCK engine doesn't have that feature/bug).

RTADash wrote:
Also, just curious, is BD10 cave E possible? You don't have to send a video, I'm sure there's some clever way to do it.


Nice cave; it requires good timing. This is how I did it:
- At both left/right side grap all diamonds except to last one.
- Clean all dirt out of the 4 tunnels.
- Release the fireflies at the left, and after that, the fireflies at the right side.
- Go to the middle area where the diamonds are "guarded". Wait for a moment when there's enough distance between the fireflies, walk in, turn left, and drop some diamonds without crushing any firefly. At the same time run upwards into the diamonds, and you're safe from fireflies and take your time to grap all the remaining diamonds.
- Wait for a moment that the middle corridor is free from fireflies, and run downwards to the exit. Et voilą!


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RTADash
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice solve Very Happy , maybe someday I'll have the timing skills to do it right Laughing ...until then I'll just stick to RTAD1 cave G which is based off that cave.

On Firefox's site, his BD6 review says that Pedro created the game in one day and he seemed quite impressed by Pedro's feat.

This isn't a good thing! Caves B, int1, E, and O go a long way to show how he accomplished this.

I don't mean to bombard Don Pedro so much, but I don't like how he assigned some of these games to the "original" BD series.
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Arno
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTADash wrote:
This isn't a good thing! Caves B, int1, E, and O go a long way to show how he accomplished this.


You mean some caves are too simple (w.r.t. the setup), and too little thought of? This is indeed true for some of them but I found cave O (for instance) a little tricky and not so trivial as it looks like at first...

Something else I discovered some time ago (or better said, didn't succeed to discover...):
BD10 cave J (original version) seems like a damn hard puzzle.... Basically it'll be a matter of smartly positioning the firefly explosions. And I think some diamonds from the amoeba need to be used for explosions in order to make space so that the boulder can be pushed to the left and dropped through the magic wall.
But I have one firefly too short for this solution.... Crying or Very sad Any ideas?


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RTADash
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
You mean some caves are too simple (w.r.t. the setup), and too little thought of?

Yep. There are lots of blocks and lines in a lot of the caves. It just doesn't strike me as being creative when lots of blocks are used...

Arno wrote:
Any ideas?

Nope, I have no idea Crying or Very sad . Thinking about how to complete some of these caves gives me a headache.

What's with BD10L, there are two boulders (the rightmost ones) that seem to have no use Shocked . It looks like you just have to blast the two walls that separate you from the diamonds. Am I missing something here?
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Arno
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTADash wrote:
Arno wrote:
Any ideas?

Nope, I have no idea Crying or Very sad . Thinking about how to complete some of these caves gives me a headache.


I almost classified this cave 10J as 'unsolvable', but... I got it!! Very Happy Very Happy

The trick is to release the amoeba and let it grow until it converts to boulders! Part of the boulders will fall through the magic wall, giving you 40 diamonds. And one boulder should be pushed quickly to the left and dropped through the wall. Kill the remaining firefly/ghost by the resulting diamond, to free the exit, and you're done. QED

What a cool brainteasing cave! Shocked Even Don Pedro's creative side does show up some times - no lack of testing... this cave is solvable!

RTADash wrote:
What's with BD10L, there are two boulders (the rightmost ones) that seem to have no use Shocked . It looks like you just have to blast the two walls that separate you from the diamonds. Am I missing something here?


No, it's indeed that simple! But don't run too fast towards the exit, otherwise... Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
No, it's indeed that simple! But don't run too fast towards the exit, otherwise...

From the map (I can't actually play my way to this cave Crying or Very sad ), it looks like you need to fill the post-inbox space with a rock, or was the "not scanning the top and bottom borders" bug fixed?

I'm sure that all of Pedro's caves on level 1 are solvable (to some extent Twisted Evil ) by experienced players. However, some of his crowded higher level caves are unsolvable due to layout discrepancies caused by the random seed. (could he have overlooked this just as the designer of BD3 did?)

There were a few intermissions that caught my eye...
BD6int4 - There is a hidden exit off to the right, but it doesn't matter because the intermisson is one square too wide for the screen.
BD9int1 - (on my maps the colors are Black Black Black) How are you supposed to be able to avoid the ghosts...eh, fireflies if you don't know where anything is???
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTADash wrote:
From the map (I can't actually play my way to this cave Crying or Very sad ), it looks like you need to fill the post-inbox space with a rock, or was the "not scanning the top and bottom borders" bug fixed?


As far as I know the bottom line doesn't have that "glue" feature (only the top line), so the post-inbox sqare behaves like a usual empty space (also see for instance BD3 cave B). A firefly moving in will move out and continue its path.

RTADash wrote:
BD6int4 - There is a hidden exit off to the right, but it doesn't matter because the inermisson is one square too wide for the screen.


I think this should be a normal exit (someone edited the BDCFF).... Hidden exits are not supported by the BD1 engine.

RTADash wrote:
BD9int1 - (on my maps the colors are Black Black Black) How are you supposed to be able to avoid the ghosts...eh, fireflies I you don't know where anything is???


Impossible and unfair.... A dark cave can be interesting if it's a maze or something without fireflies, but not this! However, this intermission is probably the first dark cave ever created, and therefore historical!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
Impossible and unfair....

It could be a mistake...but I highly doubt it! Mad

Time for a BD11 speed run!
BD11-A could be fun, but it's ruined by the VERY short time limit.
BD11-H how do you divert ALL those fireflies?
BD11-I is impossible on every level, except L1
BD11-M what's with the walled in box of boulders, it has no function
BD11-N it's ridiculous having to kill one of those at the right spot at the bootom when the amoeba has that far to grow.

I think that's all...that was fun Smile .
[Clarification] ^^Just for the BD11 speed run, that is. I'm sure there's a lot more interesting stuff none of us have noticed yet Wink .
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another issue:
BD8, caves G and H; how do you do these? Confused
G

H

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTADash wrote:
BD8, caves G and H; how do you do these? Confused


G) Kill the ghosts against the left amoeba, and enclose the amoebas by boulders and Rockford himself. Note BTW that the boulders must be placed diagonally, otherwise the amoeba has too much space to grow and will turn into boulders.

H) Release the ghost by pushing the boulders. Break through the piece of wall by dropping a boulder through the magic wall at exactly the right time, such that the firefly is killed when it's above the wall. The amoeba then is converted to diamond because the magic wall has been turned on. (This is a specific feature of the BD1 engine, which cannot be used (unfortunetely) in the Constr. Kit). However a good timing is required because if you act too quickly, the amoeba has grown too little and the amount of diamonds is insufficient. Note BTW that No One has made this cave easier by requiring less diamonds and shifting the wall 1 unit downwards.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The're not as bad as I thought... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning 10J again:
WOW! Great puzzle!! I never thought of the possibility that it can be better to let an amoeba convert into boulder than into diamonds... It's a pity that two caves later, there is such a trivial one...
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