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Don Pedro BD5-11
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Dustin
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Erlangen, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's my opinion about BD5:
A: Nice intro
B: perhaps a bit too easy, even for a second cave
C:average
D:funny, but not too hard
E: Quite simple if you force the first FF to circle
F:Good idea with the amoeba; in Lv1 there's plenty time to collect the dias
G,H:average
I: (too) easy when you know the lower wall's also magic
J: that's a nice cave!
K: Oner or two more FFs would make it harder, but no bad idea
L: nice
M: Well, I don't like these butterfy-amoeba-caves much...
N:too easy
O: quite not easy!
P:Once you know you must collect your 41st boulder, it's average

Overall: Not a bad game, although there aren't many new ideas.

But if you're right, RTAD, that the higher levels are badly thought of and partly unsolvable, that's of course a severe mistake! I aslo think DP could've left some caves away, perhaps making a game less, but- concerning lv1- there are also many quite nice caves among them!
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Arno
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustin wrote:
B: perhaps a bit too easy, even for a second cave

Not too easy, I think. You have to blast a wall "from above" by crushing a firefly at the right place; I found that a bit tricky when I was a beginning BD player... Wink

Dustin wrote:
I: (too) easy when you know the lower wall's also magic

Yeah, I remember I once forgot to drop the boulders slowly and gradually, so I had a few diamonds too short. All the work (pushing bouders) for nothing...! Laughing
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here my comments of BD6 (original version), some caves only by the map, because I only have No One's Versions to play...

A: Simple intro again
B: I think here you're quite right, RTA, when you say some caves lack interest...
C:Typical C-cave, but a bit easy in this case...
D: well, experiencedly done, I personally don't like this type of caves much...
E: If you know how to force fireflies on circlular paths, it's easy
F:well, a bit chaotic,and again, you do quite well by knowing how to force fireflies on circles...
GHow to get out of the start???? The rtest is relatively easy...
H:not too hard IF you manage to release completely trapped Fflies; I often fail since the fly comes out immediately and I explode before I can flee...
I:Be fast with the magic wall....
J:nothing new, but -to me- quite hard
K:That's quite easy, I like it! The fireflies are easy to release, since their left sides are accessible, and you may even make one mistake and waste one fly.
L:First this search for the magic walls... and one or two lives are gone. And once you know how to do it, you still have to watch out for these fireflies.
M:no clear theme, but easy. Get rid of the amoeba by the magic wall and use the boulder on the flies.
N:Again, a bit uncreative.
O:I think it's too easy for a second- last cave. Just one little trick to use, and you'll make it forever. Rather an intermission or a cave A or B.
P:Another cave where the only real difficulty is to release trapped flies.

Conclusion: Not the best game, to my mind. Too many caves without a clear theme and just of the kind you said, RTA Dash: "Well, some butterflies here, some ghosts and boulder there, that's it!"
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BD7:

A:same procedure as every year...
B:A nice idea, but it MADDENS me!!!! IT's not the problem to collect the diamonds, but HOW to reach the exit without colliding with a fireghost ??
C: Only one word: speed!
D:not too hard D- cave; some diamonds get lost, but you don't need that much of them, either.
E: a bit experienced, the time is the only real problem; stolen from BD1, Int2
F:funny, but nothing new, either
G:nice idea, success is a bit dependant on luck, I think, but you can raise your chances by a good strategy.
H:not hard; hope that Rockford pushes the boulder fast enough
I:don't-get-trapped- cave, reminds to BD2, P
J:one more avoid-the-fireflies-cave
K:the nearly all dr makes it tricky
L:a hardened version of BD1, I- OK
M:here no one's version seems much easier. In the original, do you really have to makre the amoeba survive and convert to boulder?
N:nice
O:not very creative
P:see O

Overall: again, too little new ideas! In spite of that, it's a clear augmentation to BD6, to my mind.
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Arno
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About BD6 again:
Dustin wrote:
C:Typical C-cave

Yes, in fact all caves C in BD5...11 are simple modifications of BD1 cave C. In the maps the only changes are in the "RandomFill" items and the in- and outbox. The random seed is not changed, which is good to see by comparing the maps.

Quote:
G:How to get out of the start???? The rtest is relatively easy...

At this point No One did a nice twist... Laughing

Quote:
J:nothing new, but -to me- quite hard

Is it possible to grap that last diamond at the upper left area (without being trapped by the boulder)? I think not, so you must search for the magic walls, if not discovered yet...

Concerning BD7:
Quote:
M:here no one's version seems much easier. In the original, do you really have to makre the amoeba survive and convert to boulder?

That's indeed the way to do it. Funny enough, there's plenty of time to convert the boulders, although both the Amoeba Time and Magic Wall Time are set to 140...
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno wrote:
Yes, in fact all caves C in BD5...11 are simple modifications of BD1 cave C. In the maps the only changes are in the "RandomFill" items and the in- and outbox. The random seed is not changed, which is good to see by comparing the maps.

The same is true for Cave A in BD5-9, 11. (Except for the added objects) Smile
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Arno
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed that BD8 and 9 were slightly underexposed in this topic.

So here's my review of BD8:

A. Typical; same random seed and densities as in BD1.
B. Nice idea.
C. Grap the diamonds quickly, before the amoebas grow to big! Perhaps this is the fist cave ever that uses this concept (?)
D. Nice idea; avoiding the pumpkins I found actually the hardes part.
Int1: Average.
E. You release more ghosts than you need, this makes it tricky. The other items seem to be there to divert the player, I think. Notice how No One's changed the cave Laughing
F. Pretty hard cave, because of the many ghosts.
G/H. Tricky caves, as discussed earlier in this thread.
Int2. Interesting; amoeba grows slowly at first, but start growing fast when it leaves its fence. So you have to decide carefully at which moment you drop the boulder.
I. Too easy if you know how the magic wall works.
J. Nice idea.
K. Tricky. As I experienced, you have to kill some ghosts with the boulder in order to have better opportunities to walk freely to the exit.
L. Boring; lots of boulder pushing.
Int3. Tricky as the exit is actually hidden (in BD1 engine you can view 19 columns in intermissions, but in others like PLCK you see 20 columns).
M. Too empty and not so creative...
N. Speed is everything!!
O. Interesting. Also note No One's version: totally different cave, but very interesting as well (reminds me of BD2 int 1).
P. You must open 2 rooms with the same ghost. This requires good timing skills.
Int4. Pretty hard for an intermission. Check No One's twist! Laughing

In general: introducing the pumpkin was not such a good idea. Silly
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with most caves. I want to add some general opinion:
- Most of the ideas Don Pedro had are repeated again and again in the games, the C-caves are only one example for this. One more idea that he repeats too often (to my mind), is blasting through walls using flies. There are lots of caves which don't have another special point, and many caves make me believe (just as RTA Dash already stated in this thread) that Don Pedro has made them in five minutes or so. There are also some quite good caves, and if he had used these ideas to make only two or three games, I would state the games as very great ones. As it is, I would call them average.
- There's one thing I really pity: that he did not care about the higher levels! The tendency to quasi- one level games already starts at BD 3, but this is extreme. I think, if one makes a game with a five- level engine, he should also give the player the chance to play through all the caves And it is really not too much work. Personally I find the original five- level idea with changing seeds, needed diamonds, time and speed pretty good and I find it really a pity that soem authors using this engine didn't care for it!
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustin wrote:
Personally I find the original five- level idea with changing seeds, needed diamonds, time and speed pretty good and I find it really a pity that soem authors using this engine didn't care for it!
Maybe, we should analyze all the BD1 and BD2 engine games and do a list of those to appear with true level adjustments.
Maybe, I should give my upcoming XDC engine the option to build a one level only game for those really don't care, so it doesn't appear with fake levels then.
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RTADash
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
Maybe, we should analyze all the BD1 and BD2 engine games and do a list of those to appear with true level adjustments.

It appears that all the "Profi Boulder" games have proper usage of all five levels. These games under-utilize the random fill so much, though, that unsolvability issues aren't likely anyway... Wink
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LogicDeLuxe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTADash wrote:
It appears that all the "Profi Boulder" games have proper usage of all five levels. These games under-utilize the random fill so much, though, that unsolvability issues aren't likely anyway... Wink
I think, he put maximum thoughts into anything. Profi Boulders even have working demos, while most other games (including BD3) just walk the steps of the BD1 cave A/1 demo data, which looks rather silly.

I have to admit, that I also didn't much testing on higher levels in my Deluxe Caves series. The reason not to was usually the huge amount of new games, so you rather go on with the next game instead of playing the next level. This is probably a bit different nowadays.
However, this couldn't be the reason for Don Pedro, as those a very early games, before the masses were there.
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Dustin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, No One, too, cared for the five levels in the hames he made with the BD1 engine.
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Don Pedro
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Zombie Crackers Masters Boulder Dash Reply with quote

You forgot the Zombie Crackers Masters Boulder Dash, that was my first. My name is not in, but anyway - how do you like that?
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Don Pedro
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
However, this couldn't be the reason for Don Pedro, as those a very early games, before the masses were there.


That is soo true, we did those games for us - and some Friends - but that was it. If we could pass level 1, the cave was finished. Very Happy
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Arno
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Zombie Crackers Masters Boulder Dash Reply with quote

Don Pedro wrote:
You forgot the Zombie Crackers Masters Boulder Dash, that was my first. My name is not in, but anyway - how do you like that?

As this is apparently your first game, it cannot be left out, of course! Smile So here is my short review:

A. Simple, but tricky for a beginner!
B. Looking at the map I'm wondering from which side the fireflies can be released the best... I would free them from below. Smile
C. BD3 cave C, with a different random seed and more diamonds required...
D. Is this the first cave ever in which an amoeba is used mainly for blocking the way while growing? Previously, I believed that was 8C.
E. Too easy, but probably restricted by the original game...
F. Random fill similar to 3F.
G. Requires perfect timing!
H. Nothing special...
I. Too easy.
J. The bottom right corner is more tricky than it looks like at first.
K. Nothing special.
L. A hard cave with many fireflies.
M. This is a cave I like, because there are things to explore!
N. Also nice, and requires good timing with the firefly explosions.
O. Nothing special.
P. Nothing special.
Intermissions: almost the same. This would be better if you increased the difficulty by adding walls/fireflies, for instance.

All in all: most caves are too simple or too empty, but for a first game (and given the way it is constructed) it is not bad and at least well playable!

Finally, a question:
Did you re-use Sijben Soft's version of BD3, or a different game? The colours in Master's BD are almost equal to Sijben Soft's version, but not exactly...!
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